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A HISTORY OF BLACKBALL, 13th to 18th century.
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DescriptionA HISTORY OF BLACKBALL, 13th to 18th century.
Hi everyone. I’m now posting a second question for friends on here who are still having doubts about historical accuracy.
A bit of background: communities of people occupied our region for five hundred and more years before anyone else turned up from anywhere else in the world. Although the first generations of settlers came from agricultural societies back in their home islands, they found Te Tai Poutini not very hospitable to their tropical and subtropical crops. They responded by hunting and gathering. Otherwise they’d starve. They had to work very hard to find out what could be hunted and gathered on the banks and back country of the Māwheranui. Also, they sought high quality hard stones of various types, vital for tools and weapons. They behaved, in other words, the way humans always behave when they settle new territory: they needed to know what they could use to survive and make a living.
Question Two:
Why would communities of people who occupied the region for five hundred and more years not send exploring parties into every side valley and onto every tableland, looking for food, stone and other resources – and, in the process, look very thoroughly at the tableland and side valleys of Blackball?
Pic: taro, brought by the first settlers from their home islands elsewhere in Polynesia, was grown at Māwhera pāMap[1] ContributorStevan Eldred-Grigg
Hi everyone. I’m now posting a second question for friends on here who are still having doubts about historical accuracy.
A bit of background: communities of people occupied our region for five hundred and more years before anyone else turned up from anywhere else in the world. Although the first generations of settlers came from agricultural societies back in their home islands, they found Te Tai Poutini not very hospitable to their tropical and subtropical crops. They responded by hunting and gathering. Otherwise they’d starve. They had to work very hard to find out what could be hunted and gathered on the banks and back country of the Māwheranui. Also, they sought high quality hard stones of various types, vital for tools and weapons. They behaved, in other words, the way humans always behave when they settle new territory: they needed to know what they could use to survive and make a living.
Question Two:
Why would communities of people who occupied the region for five hundred and more years not send exploring parties into every side valley and onto every tableland, looking for food, stone and other resources – and, in the process, look very thoroughly at the tableland and side valleys of Blackball?
Pic: taro, brought by the first settlers from their home islands elsewhere in Polynesia, was grown at Māwhera pāMap[1] ContributorStevan Eldred-Grigg
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Location (city or town)BlackballEventA HISTORY OF BLACKBALL, 13th to 18th century.
From Facebook
CommentsJohn Hurley
The screw is turning on Post Colonial Studies, because it makes assumptions about power and racism being fundamental to colonisation. The government bureaucrats are knee deep in perpetuating that (bless them).
Don Hutton
John Hurley Would you like to explain that a bit more please. I'm not sure where you're coming from.
John Hurley
Don Hutton People are at last becoming aware of Critical Theory and it's offshoot as Post Colonial Studies.
No photo description available.
John Hurley
This is a great book. In today's world it is like an Atlas https://cynicaltheories.com/
May be an image of sunglasses and text
John Hurley
https://newdiscourses.com/
New Discourses
NEWDISCOURSES.COM
New Discourses
New Discourses
Stephen Laurenson
There is a lot that we will probably never know
John Hurley
I was surprised at the way Brunner and his guide were starving on their journey. The food was locked in the ecosystem?
John Hurley
Couldn't they have bled beech trees for sap; eaten huhu; fern root?
Lorraine Anderson
John Hurley Maori did that and a lot more...
John Rosanowski
John Hurley No it was the forest down the Buller river which had no birdlife etc.
Rex Bourke
John Hurley Buller notes of the journey - explains “ start to finish- ( 2 guides Kehu who Buller had wked with befor- Anyways payment £5 each - full kit= new boots- wool singlets shirts pants 2 pairs wool socks-(rain coat-oil skin)- bk pack and food for a team of 3 ) thing was two women arrived with the guides - Buller says no way- they go bk- Kehu explains -they cant -they’re running away wifes- so food for 3 now a team of 5.. idea was to get to a place called inangahua -find the waka -thats in the bush someplace and off down the Buller River- yeah(( Kehu hadn’t actually been here this was -all knowledge- so after days and days looking about they finally found a rotting old canoe - Buller says there were no tracks/ trails -anywhereand the disintegrating Canoe-could of been laying in the bush for 10yrs or longer -so off they went by foot again - then the Down pour starts - non stop Raining 21 days and nights...the women get seriously sick -in 3 weeks they only managed 100 yards advance - their is no tracks - just tangle upon tangled up Westcoast jungle - rain muddy cold-they cut bark in sheets ti building a shelter- they couldn’t catch eels because of the flooding - the food got wet it was a disaster guides wanted to leave the women- but Buller was not having that - He killed his dog- after 3 wks solid of rain the weather finally broke -
Glenn Johnston
Crops were grown by Maori on the West Coast though. Accounts from the early Europeans remarked that crops were encountered. Kumara cultivation was encountered as far south as up the coast between Greymouth and Westport. Yes they were hunters and gather… See More
Pam Englefield-Absolum
Glenn Johnston remember that the Kumara, or sweet potato came from South America.
Don Hutton
Glenn Johnston Yes this happened in many parts of the country. I recall Murray McCaskill giving us lectures on pre European agriculture in historical geography at CU. It was based on early European observations. It might explain why Maori developed vegetable growing and had a thriving trans Tasman trade before the "fire in the fern" distracted them.
Susan Barlow
Don Hutton What was the "fire in the fern"? Was there really a "thriving trans Tasman trade? That is fascinating! I blush to admit that my knowledge of Maori on the Coast is limited.
Don Hutton
Susan Barlow The Land Wars. Back in the 1960s there was an excellent school bulletin on the topic entitled Fire in the Fern. Others included The Coming of the Musket and Te Tiriti o Waitangi. We were actually teaching NZ History in those days with much… See More
Glenn Johnston
Susan Barlow I think Don's reference to "fire in the fern" is a euphemism for the Anglo-Maori and in some cases Maori- Maori warfare that took place in the C19th.
Glenn Johnston
We both answered at the same time Don. At least I was on the right track with my interpretation.
Don Hutton
Susan Barlow So is Stevan Eldred-Grigg's!
Susan Barlow
Don Hutton OH! Shoot! I actually DO remember that bulletin! Thank you.
Susan Barlow
Glenn Johnston You did & you were. Thank you
Mary Moffitt
Susan Barlow Others have mentioned the use of ‘fire in the fern’ to describe the Land Wars etc, but it came into being because fires in the bush often appear to have gone out but in fact the hot embers have remained under the fern and flare up, when least expected, just like the wars did. A very useful term and a very local one to NZ.
Glenn Johnston
I know what you are getting at Mary Moffitt. However in reality hot embers flare up when most expected not when least expected though! It is all a matter of interactions between fuel availability and fuel dryness, realitive humidity of the air, temperature and wind speed. eg on a cold wet night with no wind and little remaining unburnt fuel embers wouldn't flare up. Thus given the set of circumstances perhaps the "land wars" were predictable.
Mary Moffitt
Yes, I suppose so, if those concerned were paying attention carefully.
Cynthia McCaughan
My mother remembers as a child in the 1940s being shown places where ancient Maori gardens were, around the shore at Woodpecker bay - that land has since eroded
Mary Moffitt
Cynthia McCaughan There are many such gardens from Brightwater to Richmond and other large pockets nearby in the Nelson area. No iwi appears to claim them, so many of us tried to find details about them. We could never find out any Maori names for locations in our particular area, because they have been lost or belonged to an earlier people? There were even clearly defined semi-fortified places on a low part of a hill area which gives a view of three other directions and valleys on a farm we owned.
There was a singular lack of interest in this.
Interestingly there were artifacts found during excavations in Tahunanui many years ago. This was published in the local paper but nothing more was ever printed. It would all fit the Waitaha story. Waitaha had interests in many parts of the South Island and the West Coast was very important to them.
Two notable archaeologists of my acquaintance just shrugged in despair about all of this, claiming that there was just too much for them to manage.
So maybe it is a lack of trained people to find and deal with what is to be found, rather than a lack of evidence?
Cynthia McCaughan
Mary Moffitt likewise when early Pakeha settlers explored the valleys and rock shelters of South Canterbury with Maori (more than likely Ngai Tahu) guides and saw the rock art there, they asked their Maori companions about the drawings and were met by shrugs and indifference: nobody knew who, what or why. Many ancient sites were known, but the people who created them were not ancestors
Mary Moffitt
Cynthia McCaughan Yes, I think that you are right. I suppose people in some other countries are used to finding layers of civilisation, but each group coming here wanted to be the first, and many have believed them. Food was undoubtedly hard work to find/grow, so newcomers would be a threat to food supplies.
We have a bit of information about Motutapu island in the Grey River at Dobson, and it shows consecutive ownerships.
Lawrence Boul
Any objective study of this subject would be peer-reviewed in appropriate fora. I'm not sure what Facebook lobbying achieves, and in any case it doesn't meet the stated objective of this group, which is the sharing of historic West Coast photos. Admins?
Heather Newby
badge icon
Lawrence Boul anything to do with the history of the Coast is fine.
Wayne Nicholson
Heather Newby . I am finding this subject very interesting and happy to follow as long as both sides have their say without name calling or derision.
Geoff More
Wayne Nicholson me too.l thought it very intersesting.
Geoff More
INTERESTING..hayte to make a typo ..get slaughtered for alot less hehe!.
Susan Barlow
Wayne Nicholson Anyone who resorts to that type thing should be warned of removal. Why would they on a topic like this, anyway? History is always fascinating.
Heather Newby
badge icon
Wayne Nicholson yes.. I find it fascinating too..
Lorraine Anderson
Stevan Eldred-Grigg.... to be honest I take issue with unsubstantiated generalisations.
I was reading your opinion... I got up to ....”they responded by hunting and gathering. Otherwise they starved....”
Let’s back up the bus... you might want to rea… See More
Faye Rainford
Very interesting reading thank you
John Lester
You will find that with most people 'History"starts only when they were born.Everything is 'Ancient' history or just stories and legends.
The screw is turning on Post Colonial Studies, because it makes assumptions about power and racism being fundamental to colonisation. The government bureaucrats are knee deep in perpetuating that (bless them).
Don Hutton
John Hurley Would you like to explain that a bit more please. I'm not sure where you're coming from.
John Hurley
Don Hutton People are at last becoming aware of Critical Theory and it's offshoot as Post Colonial Studies.
No photo description available.
John Hurley
This is a great book. In today's world it is like an Atlas https://cynicaltheories.com/
May be an image of sunglasses and text
John Hurley
https://newdiscourses.com/
New Discourses
NEWDISCOURSES.COM
New Discourses
New Discourses
Stephen Laurenson
There is a lot that we will probably never know
John Hurley
I was surprised at the way Brunner and his guide were starving on their journey. The food was locked in the ecosystem?
John Hurley
Couldn't they have bled beech trees for sap; eaten huhu; fern root?
Lorraine Anderson
John Hurley Maori did that and a lot more...
John Rosanowski
John Hurley No it was the forest down the Buller river which had no birdlife etc.
Rex Bourke
John Hurley Buller notes of the journey - explains “ start to finish- ( 2 guides Kehu who Buller had wked with befor- Anyways payment £5 each - full kit= new boots- wool singlets shirts pants 2 pairs wool socks-(rain coat-oil skin)- bk pack and food for a team of 3 ) thing was two women arrived with the guides - Buller says no way- they go bk- Kehu explains -they cant -they’re running away wifes- so food for 3 now a team of 5.. idea was to get to a place called inangahua -find the waka -thats in the bush someplace and off down the Buller River- yeah(( Kehu hadn’t actually been here this was -all knowledge- so after days and days looking about they finally found a rotting old canoe - Buller says there were no tracks/ trails -anywhereand the disintegrating Canoe-could of been laying in the bush for 10yrs or longer -so off they went by foot again - then the Down pour starts - non stop Raining 21 days and nights...the women get seriously sick -in 3 weeks they only managed 100 yards advance - their is no tracks - just tangle upon tangled up Westcoast jungle - rain muddy cold-they cut bark in sheets ti building a shelter- they couldn’t catch eels because of the flooding - the food got wet it was a disaster guides wanted to leave the women- but Buller was not having that - He killed his dog- after 3 wks solid of rain the weather finally broke -
Glenn Johnston
Crops were grown by Maori on the West Coast though. Accounts from the early Europeans remarked that crops were encountered. Kumara cultivation was encountered as far south as up the coast between Greymouth and Westport. Yes they were hunters and gather… See More
Pam Englefield-Absolum
Glenn Johnston remember that the Kumara, or sweet potato came from South America.
Don Hutton
Glenn Johnston Yes this happened in many parts of the country. I recall Murray McCaskill giving us lectures on pre European agriculture in historical geography at CU. It was based on early European observations. It might explain why Maori developed vegetable growing and had a thriving trans Tasman trade before the "fire in the fern" distracted them.
Susan Barlow
Don Hutton What was the "fire in the fern"? Was there really a "thriving trans Tasman trade? That is fascinating! I blush to admit that my knowledge of Maori on the Coast is limited.
Don Hutton
Susan Barlow The Land Wars. Back in the 1960s there was an excellent school bulletin on the topic entitled Fire in the Fern. Others included The Coming of the Musket and Te Tiriti o Waitangi. We were actually teaching NZ History in those days with much… See More
Glenn Johnston
Susan Barlow I think Don's reference to "fire in the fern" is a euphemism for the Anglo-Maori and in some cases Maori- Maori warfare that took place in the C19th.
Glenn Johnston
We both answered at the same time Don. At least I was on the right track with my interpretation.
Don Hutton
Susan Barlow So is Stevan Eldred-Grigg's!
Susan Barlow
Don Hutton OH! Shoot! I actually DO remember that bulletin! Thank you.
Susan Barlow
Glenn Johnston You did & you were. Thank you
Mary Moffitt
Susan Barlow Others have mentioned the use of ‘fire in the fern’ to describe the Land Wars etc, but it came into being because fires in the bush often appear to have gone out but in fact the hot embers have remained under the fern and flare up, when least expected, just like the wars did. A very useful term and a very local one to NZ.
Glenn Johnston
I know what you are getting at Mary Moffitt. However in reality hot embers flare up when most expected not when least expected though! It is all a matter of interactions between fuel availability and fuel dryness, realitive humidity of the air, temperature and wind speed. eg on a cold wet night with no wind and little remaining unburnt fuel embers wouldn't flare up. Thus given the set of circumstances perhaps the "land wars" were predictable.
Mary Moffitt
Yes, I suppose so, if those concerned were paying attention carefully.
Cynthia McCaughan
My mother remembers as a child in the 1940s being shown places where ancient Maori gardens were, around the shore at Woodpecker bay - that land has since eroded
Mary Moffitt
Cynthia McCaughan There are many such gardens from Brightwater to Richmond and other large pockets nearby in the Nelson area. No iwi appears to claim them, so many of us tried to find details about them. We could never find out any Maori names for locations in our particular area, because they have been lost or belonged to an earlier people? There were even clearly defined semi-fortified places on a low part of a hill area which gives a view of three other directions and valleys on a farm we owned.
There was a singular lack of interest in this.
Interestingly there were artifacts found during excavations in Tahunanui many years ago. This was published in the local paper but nothing more was ever printed. It would all fit the Waitaha story. Waitaha had interests in many parts of the South Island and the West Coast was very important to them.
Two notable archaeologists of my acquaintance just shrugged in despair about all of this, claiming that there was just too much for them to manage.
So maybe it is a lack of trained people to find and deal with what is to be found, rather than a lack of evidence?
Cynthia McCaughan
Mary Moffitt likewise when early Pakeha settlers explored the valleys and rock shelters of South Canterbury with Maori (more than likely Ngai Tahu) guides and saw the rock art there, they asked their Maori companions about the drawings and were met by shrugs and indifference: nobody knew who, what or why. Many ancient sites were known, but the people who created them were not ancestors
Mary Moffitt
Cynthia McCaughan Yes, I think that you are right. I suppose people in some other countries are used to finding layers of civilisation, but each group coming here wanted to be the first, and many have believed them. Food was undoubtedly hard work to find/grow, so newcomers would be a threat to food supplies.
We have a bit of information about Motutapu island in the Grey River at Dobson, and it shows consecutive ownerships.
Lawrence Boul
Any objective study of this subject would be peer-reviewed in appropriate fora. I'm not sure what Facebook lobbying achieves, and in any case it doesn't meet the stated objective of this group, which is the sharing of historic West Coast photos. Admins?
Heather Newby
badge icon
Lawrence Boul anything to do with the history of the Coast is fine.
Wayne Nicholson
Heather Newby . I am finding this subject very interesting and happy to follow as long as both sides have their say without name calling or derision.
Geoff More
Wayne Nicholson me too.l thought it very intersesting.
Geoff More
INTERESTING..hayte to make a typo ..get slaughtered for alot less hehe!.
Susan Barlow
Wayne Nicholson Anyone who resorts to that type thing should be warned of removal. Why would they on a topic like this, anyway? History is always fascinating.
Heather Newby
badge icon
Wayne Nicholson yes.. I find it fascinating too..
Lorraine Anderson
Stevan Eldred-Grigg.... to be honest I take issue with unsubstantiated generalisations.
I was reading your opinion... I got up to ....”they responded by hunting and gathering. Otherwise they starved....”
Let’s back up the bus... you might want to rea… See More
Faye Rainford
Very interesting reading thank you
John Lester
You will find that with most people 'History"starts only when they were born.Everything is 'Ancient' history or just stories and legends.
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West Coast New Zealand History (11th Apr 2021). A HISTORY OF BLACKBALL, 13th to 18th century.. In Website West Coast New Zealand History. Retrieved 24th Mar 2026 22:18, from https://westcoast.recollect.co.nz/nodes/view/29032