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Maori Miden at Bruce Bay - carbon dated to 1200 AD
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DescriptionMaori Miden in Bruce Bay carbon dated to 1200 AD.
Shared from South Westland NZ Old Photos, History & Ancestry from Steve Mahuika.
Mike Dickison
There are some really odd viewpoints being expressed here. Here are the facts backed up by current science (my PhD was in fossil birds, not archaeology, but this is all pretty mainstream stuff):
1. No human beings in NZ before about 750 years ago. Wairau Bar is the oldest site and has some Polynesian artifacts.
2. First people were Polynesian settlers, the ancestor of present-day Māori.
3. Moriori were Polynesians who settled the Chahams about 500 years ago, coming from mainland NZ, possibly straight from Polynesia. They weren't Melanesians, they weren't already living here.
4. Unless it was done in the last 20 years or so carbon dates will be a bit off, maybe 100 years; techniques were a bit rough and ready. Modern carbon dating is pretty accurate.
5. No Chinese, Phoenecians, Celts, Spaniards, Martians etc. No tribes with pale skin or black skin or red hair before Polynesians 750 years ago. No "Waitaha" people (as in Barry Brailsford) here before Polynesians 750 years ago.
6. No trace of human habitation (no fires, no artifacts, no moa ovens, no fish bones, no middens, no forest clearance, no extinctions) until 750 years ago. If there were people living here, they didn't cut down trees, make fires, hunt anything, grow things, or build anything.
There's lots of good accessible work on the history of NZ out there; Andrew Crowe's Pathway of the Birds is great, and in the Hokitika Library.
Date of Photo1200adMap[1] External LinkSouth Westland NZ Old Photos, History & Ancestry.ContributorSteve Mahuika
Shared from South Westland NZ Old Photos, History & Ancestry from Steve Mahuika.
Mike Dickison
There are some really odd viewpoints being expressed here. Here are the facts backed up by current science (my PhD was in fossil birds, not archaeology, but this is all pretty mainstream stuff):
1. No human beings in NZ before about 750 years ago. Wairau Bar is the oldest site and has some Polynesian artifacts.
2. First people were Polynesian settlers, the ancestor of present-day Māori.
3. Moriori were Polynesians who settled the Chahams about 500 years ago, coming from mainland NZ, possibly straight from Polynesia. They weren't Melanesians, they weren't already living here.
4. Unless it was done in the last 20 years or so carbon dates will be a bit off, maybe 100 years; techniques were a bit rough and ready. Modern carbon dating is pretty accurate.
5. No Chinese, Phoenecians, Celts, Spaniards, Martians etc. No tribes with pale skin or black skin or red hair before Polynesians 750 years ago. No "Waitaha" people (as in Barry Brailsford) here before Polynesians 750 years ago.
6. No trace of human habitation (no fires, no artifacts, no moa ovens, no fish bones, no middens, no forest clearance, no extinctions) until 750 years ago. If there were people living here, they didn't cut down trees, make fires, hunt anything, grow things, or build anything.
There's lots of good accessible work on the history of NZ out there; Andrew Crowe's Pathway of the Birds is great, and in the Hokitika Library.
Date of Photo1200adMap[1] External LinkSouth Westland NZ Old Photos, History & Ancestry.ContributorSteve Mahuika
Shown in this image
Location (city or town)Bruce BayLandmark (Place)Maori miden in Bruce BayEventMaori Miden at Bruce Bay - carbon dated to 1200 AD
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Category TagMaori
From Facebook
Date Created1st July 2022CommentsYvonne Anisy
That’s a very long time for occupation in harsh terrain . Is there any way of knowing whether occupation was continuous, intermittent or seasonal?
Bruce Tones
Yvonne Anisy and carbon dating, is not accurate, look it up on google
Mathew Goodall
Bruce Tones carbon dating is inaccurate for things that died over 30,000 years ago. This was only 800 years ago, so pretty accurate.
Bruce Tones
Mathew Goodall well you're not up to date, are you,
Mathew Goodall
Bruce Tones I googled it Bruce. Like you said.
Tony Froome
Yvonne Anisy This area in particular was occupied around 150 BC But not by Maori
PaulAnthony Teens
Tony Froome Moa mabe
Yvonne Anisy Steve Mahuika
Katene Campbell
Caleb Robinson
Catherine Ayers
800 years ago in the scheme of things is the blink of an eye
Aaron Carey
1200ad? The maths doesn't work out. Maybe just maybe old cook got it wrong and there were two groups here the indigenous and the setlers Maori, old cooks slang is what stuffed it all up, mori and Maori were two completely different groups but cook in his white mind classed them all as one.
PaulAnthony Teens
Aaron Carey bull
Aaron Carey
PaulAnthony Teens how can you call 'bull' when there is no real written history for this country?
Phil Millar
Aaron Carey Yes and over the years the STORIES have got GREATER and Greater.A Professor from Otago University (McKenzie) wrote a paper a few years ago, that the Chinese were here before anyone else and it sits in the Otago University.It is avaliable online!
Reply2h
Tony Froome
This is nt Maori !! And if they are saying it is they should either do some homework or maybe sit down and do some learning !!!
Raewyn Stephens
Polynesian only been here 800. Strange.. If its NI it will be Parusions. They were here before Polynsians. So no not Maori.
Raewyn Stephens
Tony Kelly wrong....https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d...
Raewyn Stephens
Jade Montagu it hasnt been debunked sorry. What are you afraid of
Jade Montagu
Raewyn I’m laughing at it
Raewyn Stephens
Jade Montagu scared
Paul Rennie
There are some down the Queen Charlotte. Covered in scrub.
Tony Froome
Paul Rennie hush hush lol
Greg Taylor
haha 1200 someone been smoking on the job
Bert Chandler
Doubt if that was Maori, also doubt the carbon dating.
Jade Montagu
Bert do you doubt how they collected the samples for carbon dating, or carbon dating as a scientific method?
Matthew Howard
Interesting
Jeff Sherman
Very interesting archeology Weka, I recall you telling me about this and carbon dating results which don't lie
Raewyn Stephens
Jeff Sherman its out by 100s or 1000s depending most times
Tania Wilson
Government will be wanting to take over.
Neil Gibbs
The diggings on the Wairau Bar are dated about 1300AD and are currently rated the oldest but these findings coukd be quite plausible.
Raewyn Stephens
Neil Gibbs lets hope so. Its exciting that our country had humans on it way way back. Polynesians might not of gotten here until way after but they are still Maori's ancestors.
Neil Gibbs
Raewyn Stephens It's a fairly safe bet that Maori were here around 900 years ago. The Moriori which some maintain predated the Maori were thought to be of Melanesian origins and there is not evidence they ever set foot on the mainland,
Raewyn Stephens
Neil Gibbs they had a beautiful repetition the Moriori.
R
Miri Squizzy
Our Whakapapa goes back further than this. And also disproves the construct of tribal wars.
Catherine Ayers
Miri Squizzy are you saying there were no tribal wars ?
Raewyn Stephens
the village in Taupō is not Maori and predates Polynesians.
Damián Franciś
What a great find but I still don’t understand why we can’t claim our past it couldn’t be Maori or tangata whenua it has to be Chinese , Egyptians or ancient Celt’s
Rangitane and kati Kuia settled the Wairau Bar at that time they where confident mariner’s they originated in eastern Polynesian islands generally the Marquesas and Society Islands they where tall and slim by Polynesian standerds they even carried the Gene for red hair and would have visited the whole of the West coast looking for pounamu , pakohe and Probably Aotea on the Makawhio ( Jacobs ) so it was probably a summer whare ten years ago I would have said some conspiracy theory stuff but DNA tests don’t lie I always thought I was Irish Italian pakeha turns out I’m more Paniora ( Spanish ) Māori who Whakapapas to a 800 yr old from the Aunty on the Te Pokohiwi (Wairau bar ) who was born in the Marquess’s thank you admins for a great page
Pete Lusk
There’s a midden like this at Mussel Rocks north of Wpt, slowly being eroded away by sea.Mike Dickison
There are some really odd viewpoints being expressed here. Here are the facts backed up by current science (my PhD was in fossil birds, not archaeology, but this is all pretty mainstream stuff):
1. No human beings in NZ before about 750 years ago. Wairau Bar is the oldest site and has some Polynesian artifacts.
2. First people were Polynesian settlers, the ancestor of present-day Māori.
3. Moriori were Polynesians who settled the Chahams about 500 years ago, coming from mainland NZ, possibly straight from Polynesia. They weren't Melanesians, they weren't already living here.
4. Unless it was done in the last 20 years or so carbon dates will be a bit off, maybe 100 years; techniques were a bit rough and ready. Modern carbon dating is pretty accurate.
5. No Chinese, Phoenecians, Celts, Spaniards, Martians etc. No tribes with pale skin or black skin or red hair before Polynesians 750 years ago. No "Waitaha" people (as in Barry Brailsford) here before Polynesians 750 years ago.
6. No trace of human habitation (no fires, no artifacts, no moa ovens, no fish bones, no middens, no forest clearance, no extinctions) until 750 years ago. If there were people living here, they didn't cut down trees, make fires, hunt anything, grow things, or build anything.
There's lots of good accessible work on the history of NZ out there; Andrew Crowe's Pathway of the Birds is great, and in the Hokitika Library.
Heather Newby
Mike Dickison thanks for clearing it up.. very good,
Barry Garland
Mike Dickison Needs to be stated. Too much myth and story telling otherwise.
Michael Bickerton
I like the idea of an ancient history in NZ probably will never be proven
Catherine Ayers
Michael Bickerton seems to be the flavour of the day is to come up with all sorts of theory’s around Māori history, the colonists etc and call them facts.
Some of the stuff going round right now is ridiculous
Michael Bickerton
Catherine Ayers there is also alot of truth that has been overlooked depending on who's history and what u believe. In my life time there have been a number of things found and hidden
Michael Bickerton
Joshua Kilkelly also the 130 ton rock that was moved for road up in nth island that was carved on one side, carvings found besides a lake somewhere, article in news paper regarding rocks found at old churches that were used by the celts for pagan religion uses that were broken up by the church. River channels in north Canterbury which appear to dug out for agriculture which predates the natives, Celtic coins found, Spanish full set of armor found in nth island ( news paper article in late 80s) which were taken by iwi and never made a museum.the Chinese history that states the war ships that found nz half were sunk off hokitika and we're found 3-4 years ago.
Catherine Ayers
Michael Bickerton why would anyone want to “ hide “ history ?
Michael Bickerton
Catherine Ayers because it doesn't fit in with the churches history. History has been changed through out the ages by who ever was it power at the time and there are many examples of it.
Joshua Kilkelly
Michael Bickerton have seen doco on swept under the mat an skeletons in the closet some iwi admit this land was inhabited by others and they were trading others want to deny it and cover it up however if there was no citation by the Britannia empire and it wasn't written down did it happen
Judith Cossar
The Blanchfields Bakery was in Greymouth then. According to their radio advertising. 7 or 8th generations west coasters. ya right.
Reply23h
Dave Lyes
Judith Cossar you can have a generation every 20 years or less. There is a kiwi comedian who 30 odd years ago was a 7th generation Chinese from the Otago goldfields.
Reply20h
Darian Zam
Honestly the fact that Plumtree's productions including that garbage doco 'Skeletons in the Closet' continues to spread historical misinformation based on no actual tangible evidence and people are willing to believe whatever they say just baffles me in its stupidity. But then a lot of people are stupid. Politicians and CEOs etc rely on this. But over all the comentary is very disresopectful to people actually qualified in their fields such as scientists, historians and archaeologists.
Michael Bickerton
Darian Zam unless of course their fields are of the tunnel vision variety. There are plenty of unexplained things in history and if we blindly follow what we are told we will never evolve our minds
That’s a very long time for occupation in harsh terrain . Is there any way of knowing whether occupation was continuous, intermittent or seasonal?
Bruce Tones
Yvonne Anisy and carbon dating, is not accurate, look it up on google
Mathew Goodall
Bruce Tones carbon dating is inaccurate for things that died over 30,000 years ago. This was only 800 years ago, so pretty accurate.
Bruce Tones
Mathew Goodall well you're not up to date, are you,
Mathew Goodall
Bruce Tones I googled it Bruce. Like you said.
Tony Froome
Yvonne Anisy This area in particular was occupied around 150 BC But not by Maori
PaulAnthony Teens
Tony Froome Moa mabe
Yvonne Anisy Steve Mahuika
Katene Campbell
Caleb Robinson
Catherine Ayers
800 years ago in the scheme of things is the blink of an eye
Aaron Carey
1200ad? The maths doesn't work out. Maybe just maybe old cook got it wrong and there were two groups here the indigenous and the setlers Maori, old cooks slang is what stuffed it all up, mori and Maori were two completely different groups but cook in his white mind classed them all as one.
PaulAnthony Teens
Aaron Carey bull
Aaron Carey
PaulAnthony Teens how can you call 'bull' when there is no real written history for this country?
Phil Millar
Aaron Carey Yes and over the years the STORIES have got GREATER and Greater.A Professor from Otago University (McKenzie) wrote a paper a few years ago, that the Chinese were here before anyone else and it sits in the Otago University.It is avaliable online!
Reply2h
Tony Froome
This is nt Maori !! And if they are saying it is they should either do some homework or maybe sit down and do some learning !!!
Raewyn Stephens
Polynesian only been here 800. Strange.. If its NI it will be Parusions. They were here before Polynsians. So no not Maori.
Raewyn Stephens
Tony Kelly wrong....https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d...
Raewyn Stephens
Jade Montagu it hasnt been debunked sorry. What are you afraid of
Jade Montagu
Raewyn I’m laughing at it
Raewyn Stephens
Jade Montagu scared
Paul Rennie
There are some down the Queen Charlotte. Covered in scrub.
Tony Froome
Paul Rennie hush hush lol
Greg Taylor
haha 1200 someone been smoking on the job
Bert Chandler
Doubt if that was Maori, also doubt the carbon dating.
Jade Montagu
Bert do you doubt how they collected the samples for carbon dating, or carbon dating as a scientific method?
Matthew Howard
Interesting
Jeff Sherman
Very interesting archeology Weka, I recall you telling me about this and carbon dating results which don't lie
Raewyn Stephens
Jeff Sherman its out by 100s or 1000s depending most times
Tania Wilson
Government will be wanting to take over.
Neil Gibbs
The diggings on the Wairau Bar are dated about 1300AD and are currently rated the oldest but these findings coukd be quite plausible.
Raewyn Stephens
Neil Gibbs lets hope so. Its exciting that our country had humans on it way way back. Polynesians might not of gotten here until way after but they are still Maori's ancestors.
Neil Gibbs
Raewyn Stephens It's a fairly safe bet that Maori were here around 900 years ago. The Moriori which some maintain predated the Maori were thought to be of Melanesian origins and there is not evidence they ever set foot on the mainland,
Raewyn Stephens
Neil Gibbs they had a beautiful repetition the Moriori.
R
Miri Squizzy
Our Whakapapa goes back further than this. And also disproves the construct of tribal wars.
Catherine Ayers
Miri Squizzy are you saying there were no tribal wars ?
Raewyn Stephens
the village in Taupō is not Maori and predates Polynesians.
Damián Franciś
What a great find but I still don’t understand why we can’t claim our past it couldn’t be Maori or tangata whenua it has to be Chinese , Egyptians or ancient Celt’s
Rangitane and kati Kuia settled the Wairau Bar at that time they where confident mariner’s they originated in eastern Polynesian islands generally the Marquesas and Society Islands they where tall and slim by Polynesian standerds they even carried the Gene for red hair and would have visited the whole of the West coast looking for pounamu , pakohe and Probably Aotea on the Makawhio ( Jacobs ) so it was probably a summer whare ten years ago I would have said some conspiracy theory stuff but DNA tests don’t lie I always thought I was Irish Italian pakeha turns out I’m more Paniora ( Spanish ) Māori who Whakapapas to a 800 yr old from the Aunty on the Te Pokohiwi (Wairau bar ) who was born in the Marquess’s thank you admins for a great page
Pete Lusk
There’s a midden like this at Mussel Rocks north of Wpt, slowly being eroded away by sea.Mike Dickison
There are some really odd viewpoints being expressed here. Here are the facts backed up by current science (my PhD was in fossil birds, not archaeology, but this is all pretty mainstream stuff):
1. No human beings in NZ before about 750 years ago. Wairau Bar is the oldest site and has some Polynesian artifacts.
2. First people were Polynesian settlers, the ancestor of present-day Māori.
3. Moriori were Polynesians who settled the Chahams about 500 years ago, coming from mainland NZ, possibly straight from Polynesia. They weren't Melanesians, they weren't already living here.
4. Unless it was done in the last 20 years or so carbon dates will be a bit off, maybe 100 years; techniques were a bit rough and ready. Modern carbon dating is pretty accurate.
5. No Chinese, Phoenecians, Celts, Spaniards, Martians etc. No tribes with pale skin or black skin or red hair before Polynesians 750 years ago. No "Waitaha" people (as in Barry Brailsford) here before Polynesians 750 years ago.
6. No trace of human habitation (no fires, no artifacts, no moa ovens, no fish bones, no middens, no forest clearance, no extinctions) until 750 years ago. If there were people living here, they didn't cut down trees, make fires, hunt anything, grow things, or build anything.
There's lots of good accessible work on the history of NZ out there; Andrew Crowe's Pathway of the Birds is great, and in the Hokitika Library.
Heather Newby
Mike Dickison thanks for clearing it up.. very good,
Barry Garland
Mike Dickison Needs to be stated. Too much myth and story telling otherwise.
Michael Bickerton
I like the idea of an ancient history in NZ probably will never be proven
Catherine Ayers
Michael Bickerton seems to be the flavour of the day is to come up with all sorts of theory’s around Māori history, the colonists etc and call them facts.
Some of the stuff going round right now is ridiculous
Michael Bickerton
Catherine Ayers there is also alot of truth that has been overlooked depending on who's history and what u believe. In my life time there have been a number of things found and hidden
Michael Bickerton
Joshua Kilkelly also the 130 ton rock that was moved for road up in nth island that was carved on one side, carvings found besides a lake somewhere, article in news paper regarding rocks found at old churches that were used by the celts for pagan religion uses that were broken up by the church. River channels in north Canterbury which appear to dug out for agriculture which predates the natives, Celtic coins found, Spanish full set of armor found in nth island ( news paper article in late 80s) which were taken by iwi and never made a museum.the Chinese history that states the war ships that found nz half were sunk off hokitika and we're found 3-4 years ago.
Catherine Ayers
Michael Bickerton why would anyone want to “ hide “ history ?
Michael Bickerton
Catherine Ayers because it doesn't fit in with the churches history. History has been changed through out the ages by who ever was it power at the time and there are many examples of it.
Joshua Kilkelly
Michael Bickerton have seen doco on swept under the mat an skeletons in the closet some iwi admit this land was inhabited by others and they were trading others want to deny it and cover it up however if there was no citation by the Britannia empire and it wasn't written down did it happen
Judith Cossar
The Blanchfields Bakery was in Greymouth then. According to their radio advertising. 7 or 8th generations west coasters. ya right.
Reply23h
Dave Lyes
Judith Cossar you can have a generation every 20 years or less. There is a kiwi comedian who 30 odd years ago was a 7th generation Chinese from the Otago goldfields.
Reply20h
Darian Zam
Honestly the fact that Plumtree's productions including that garbage doco 'Skeletons in the Closet' continues to spread historical misinformation based on no actual tangible evidence and people are willing to believe whatever they say just baffles me in its stupidity. But then a lot of people are stupid. Politicians and CEOs etc rely on this. But over all the comentary is very disresopectful to people actually qualified in their fields such as scientists, historians and archaeologists.
Michael Bickerton
Darian Zam unless of course their fields are of the tunnel vision variety. There are plenty of unexplained things in history and if we blindly follow what we are told we will never evolve our minds
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West Coast New Zealand History (7th Jul 2022). Maori Miden at Bruce Bay - carbon dated to 1200 AD. In Website West Coast New Zealand History. Retrieved 4th Apr 2026 05:30, from https://westcoast.recollect.co.nz/nodes/view/31259